Religion

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Religion

Post by Rebellious Backbencher on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Decided to post this discussion in the Teahouse, to keep to sensible debate at the expense of trolling and shouting matches. Hope Kaptain Kaviar doesn't mind.
I know some of you will be aware I'm an atheist. Recently, though, I've switched from the kind of atheist who, though not "militant" in the proper sense of the word, was quick to dismiss any good religion does in favour of highlighting (and exaggerating) the bad, to one who is of the opinion that, in it's purest sense, religion is a good idea. My thoughts at the moment, which took me from the former to the latter, are these:
Though everybody likes to pretend otherwise, we've done a pretty awesome job. It's a nice thought that we're all too complex to achieve actual happiness through myriad distractions and shiny objects, but I'm quite sure I'm having a nicer time of it than a comparable person of my age and wealth at any other time in history. I have more access to entertainment and information than Queen Victoria, and I'd like to think it shows. Global warming is evidence that it's not all good, but generally everybody's having a nicer time than a generation ago, and them than a generation before.
For some, God can and should be the cherry on the top of this wondrous cake. That we can create this comfort and happiness and have the idea a great leveller at the end to take away much of the fear and apprehension of death is an example of evolution at its best.
The problem in my view comes when you start associating certain opinions with this higher being. Anybody who uses a deity to back up their views has sorely missed the point - I'm certainly underwhelmed with the Christian God, who for all His omniscience and purity seems to have a set of opinions which can basically be summed up as mid-right of centre in the political scale.
avatar
Rebellious Backbencher

Join date : 2008-08-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by weeble on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:41 pm

Show me God and i will belive.
avatar
weeble

Join date : 2008-08-27
Location : Deep in shit

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:42 pm

The Judeo-Christo-Islamic God is basically horrible.

I don't see the "comfort factor" as beneficial in the current state of religion, because it just gives religious apologists looking to preserve the anti-scientific notion of faith and perpetuate their out of date morals and institutions more ammunition.

Additionally, it's not necessarily a worthwhile factor in itself. I can delude myself that I'm dating Megan Fox, but of course I'm not. Having fantastical, wishful thinking as a core belief can surely only produce more harm than good, especially when the belief in question is of a supreme being. You have to choose between several alternatives for a start, all of which have already taken the idea of a deity to incredible levels having imbued moral constituency upon it. What I'm trying to say is that though it'd be nice to have the idea of a god that explains everything - aside from the fact it's an unsatisfactory conclusion for the naturally inquisitive human mind - it's an inevitable "gateway" to the added bells and whistles which render religion a burden on forward thinking and scientific society. Unqualified acceptance for the sake of it doesn't help to raise our consciousness, and I certainly would argue that the idea of a benevolent god and the assumption of morals derived from that god that have the potential to negatively impact others are mutual guarantors.
avatar
gdf

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Aberdeen

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Kaptain Kaviar on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:58 pm

I'm very much an atheist. The idea of a supernatural being that not only created us, but jealously watches over us and listens to our every word is, quite frankly, bloody ridiculous. Religion in general infuriates me, and I struggle to consider anyone who truly believes in God as an intelligent and well informed person.

And people tell me to respect that people believe in stuff like this. It simply infuriates me. Would people respect me talking to my invisible friend Frank? Unlikely.

And religion is without doubt the cause of the most bloodiest of conflicts in history, not to mention that it still incites all kinds prejudice. It's also laughable how Christianity demands you only believe in the one God, when in reality they pray to countless saints. And don't get me started on the hierarchy of angels and all that fantasy bullsh*t...
avatar
Kaptain Kaviar

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 27
Location : The Teahouse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Seany C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:58 pm

Whilst faith can be a good thing and have positive effects on peoples lives, giving them a blueprint on how to live and act I can't help but respect your average friendly atheists more than your average friendly believers. They're who and where they are doing the things they do because they want to, not because they think they'll get rewarded for it after death (although not every religion has the heaven and hell concept). I think to believe in religion you have to have some degree of ignorance in you as it's simply so illogical. I bet if you set up an isolated community of pregnant women and their partners on an island and had them raise the children without even teaching them the word religion up to the age of 20 and then let a priest attempt to convert them they'd laugh in his face. Some see ignorance as bliss but I see it as cruelty. I detest the kind of parenting like "If you don't eat all your vegetables you'll never grow big and strong", it's taking advantage of your own child's innocence, and that's what religion does. I see all those examples as on the same moral level as telling a mentally challenged boy or man that a girl fancies him and watching him go over and enjoying the show. Teach them to want to be good, not fear being bad. Religion has a ton of cons and the pros are built on false pretences. I dream of a day where religion has died out. Will it ever happen? Certainly not in our lifetime which is a damn shame.
avatar
Seany C
Admin

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Kent

View user profile http://theinterhood.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Dont Look Angry on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:08 pm

Why chance not believing in God? There's nothing to lose people. That's the way I see it. Go to mass every Sunday at mothers persistence. Waste of 30 minutes but that's me 'covered' for the week.

I'm a good wee Catholic. Cool

But yes religion is the factor behind most of the wars in the world. Living in Northern Ireland I know better than most. And I agree with the majority of Atheist arguments. But hey RE was the easiest A* ever.
avatar
Dont Look Angry

Join date : 2008-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Seany C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:14 pm

Dont Look Angry wrote:Why chance not believing in God? There's nothing to lose people. That's the way I see it. Go to mass every Sunday at mothers persistence. Waste of 30 minutes but that's me 'covered' for the week.
By that logic you should also wear a turban and get circumcised.
avatar
Seany C
Admin

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Kent

View user profile http://theinterhood.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Dont Look Angry on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:18 pm

Seany C wrote:
Dont Look Angry wrote:Why chance not believing in God? There's nothing to lose people. That's the way I see it. Go to mass every Sunday at mothers persistence. Waste of 30 minutes but that's me 'covered' for the week.
By that logic you should also wear a turban and get circumcised.

Same God technically Seany. Islam, Judaism and Christianity Razz
avatar
Dont Look Angry

Join date : 2008-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Seany C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:27 pm

And doesn't that seem odd to you? Isn't it funny how religions seem to be region specific? Almost as if some smart but dangerous people created and engineered a religion to control their people and gain their support. I bet politicians of today are just pissed off they can't rewrite the good book to back up all their agendas.
And you can still pull it off in this day and age. Look at Scientology.
avatar
Seany C
Admin

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Kent

View user profile http://theinterhood.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Dont Look Angry on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:37 pm

Hey don't question me about these technicalities. I just go to mass the odd time Rolling Eyes
avatar
Dont Look Angry

Join date : 2008-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Seany C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:40 pm

lol
avatar
Seany C
Admin

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Kent

View user profile http://theinterhood.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:59 pm

Don't get me started on the indoctrination aspect Seany, I have gone mental before and it's not good for me. I'm an example of your point though, I was raised in a completely secular environment, my parents never tried to force anything down my throat and I wasn't Christened like many of my peers. I joined the Boys' Brigade (which I agree makes me a bit of a hypocrite) at the age of seven, and even by then I thought this notion of an enormous invisible man who made, saw, and influenced everything was stupid. The fact they still sing religious songs in normal schools also pisses me off, and faith schools themselves are an affront to humanity. Dawkins calls it child abuse, and I'm inclined to agree.

Other Sean, I'm sorry to say your position irritates me somewhat Crying

You go occasionally to save face for your parents, as one of my friends does, but there's probably little benefit to you. You're not even sure what you actually believe about it. This lack of conviction is widespread, and though I hope I don't come off as a prick for saying this because you're really a great guy, it's that mentality that allows religion to keep its hold on large sections of society. If people were to investigate and come to their own conclusions - and I'm sure presented with sufficient evidence both ways most would plump for either atheism or atheistic agnosticism - the religious institutions would become weaker worldwide and we'd perhaps even see an overall atheist majority emerging, allowing the assumption of religion as truth by governments etc. to slip into the past cheers
avatar
gdf

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Aberdeen

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Black Suede on Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:18 pm

The hopes and dreams of teenagers.
avatar
Black Suede

Join date : 2008-08-27
Age : 28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Dont Look Angry on Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:19 pm

Fair dues, Fraiser Smile

But religion is also the major factor in setting down the 'Rights and wrongs' of society. Can you can tell me that if religion never existed the world would be a more friendly, loving place, don't think so somehow. But I know what your getting at. So although religion has its downsides (which are alot) I think its upsides outweigh them, just in the purely moral sense.
avatar
Dont Look Angry

Join date : 2008-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Kaptain Kaviar on Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:25 pm

So you're saying atheists have worse morals simply because they don't have an invisible man waggling a finger down at them? Are atheists more prone to commit moral injustices compared to religious people? Religion insinuates that its followers are better than others. Is this a good moral?
avatar
Kaptain Kaviar

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 27
Location : The Teahouse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Dont Look Angry on Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:12 pm

I'm saying without religion, we'd still be cavemen running around batting each other in the head with large clubs. Religion inspired morals.

Don't get too upset Major Smile
avatar
Dont Look Angry

Join date : 2008-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Kaptain Kaviar on Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:55 pm

I'm gonna have to agree to disagree there. We wouldn't still be cavemen without religion.

Don't worry, I'm not upset. Just debating.
Wink
avatar
Kaptain Kaviar

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 27
Location : The Teahouse

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by weeble on Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:09 pm

God stole my Avi!!!!!
avatar
weeble

Join date : 2008-08-27
Location : Deep in shit

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:12 pm

I don't know, I'm fairly sure we were able to naturally formulate morals without some stone tablets a big guy zapped down to us lol

The zeitgeist moves constantly. Interestingly enough, I was flicking through the New Testament of The Bible so as to give the other side of the argument a fair shake. I looked in the advice section and saw a passage on "Sexual Immorality". One of the first things it said was the "the homosexual criminals" were going to burn for eternity. Is this book really the highest moral authority?

Dawkins, I have a massive boner for him. Take a look.

avatar
gdf

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Aberdeen

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Seany C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:51 pm

Good post gdf. Did those words sound like that of a God, or that of a manipulative, egotistic mortal thirsty for power?
avatar
Seany C
Admin

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Kent

View user profile http://theinterhood.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:53 pm

They're one and the same in my eyes.
avatar
gdf

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Aberdeen

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by 01casey on Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:57 pm

Any of you guys checked out any Pat Condell? Although he often seems a little off-kilter, he's absolutely bang on with regards to religion and the people associated with it.
avatar
01casey

Join date : 2008-09-02
Age : 25
Location : Preston, UK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:59 pm

I've seen him a bit, he's pretty funny but a bit... filled with hatred for the rest of humanity.

lol

Oh, and his defence of Geert Wilders is unacceptable.


Last edited by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
gdf

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Aberdeen

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Seany C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:03 pm

gdf wrote:They're one and the same in my eyes.
Are you only taking into consideration the God that secular religions portray in their man-written texts?
avatar
Seany C
Admin

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Kent

View user profile http://theinterhood.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by gdf on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Yes, capitalising the "G" would indicate the traditional monotheistic deity.
avatar
gdf

Join date : 2008-08-26
Age : 26
Location : Aberdeen

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum