The Intellectual Film Discussion Thread.

[DanglyBrasco]

Inglourious Basterds, Brilliance or referential ego trip?

I've been reading a good deal about film recently, from more, intellectual sources than usual shall we say, and discovered there's somewhat of a split between critics, and public alike.

Basically, people who hate the film, seem to believe that the film shos Tarantino's knowledge of all things cinema, but "lack of understanding of the real world". That he ignores all the serious questions, portrays the Nazi's as cariacature, cartoon villains, whom its acceptable to treat in any manner (Scalping, Death by Bat...machine gunning Hitler until his face is mangled...). That the film is simply Tarantino given free reign, and has let loose with everything, unrestrained dialogue, violence and has frannkly made a mess. ( See Film Comment, and The Guardians, Robert....something)

On the other hand, people who loved the film seem to claim that the film represents popcorn entertainment, that the establishing credit... "Once Upon A Time In Occupied France" immediately establishes the film as a fantasy, alongside Death Proof and Kill Bill. That the film should not be considered hard hitting, serious film... as falling in line with his other works.

In my opinion, both sides have valid points, of course, but i loved the film, and think the rather more snobbish critics have somewhat missed the point entirely, what exactly were they expecting? I went into the theatre being a fan of Tarantinos work, his uber violence in Pulp, Kill Bill and Death Proof, being a fan of his pulp dialogue from Dogs and Jackie Brown, and got exactly what i was expecting. A fine balance of damn good entertainment. As for the idea Tarantino has simply been given free reign over at Miramax, i think this is completely fabulous. Like Von Trier perhaps, Tarantino can be considered somewhat an auteur, not being restrained by the democracy of the studios... And if Inglouriosu Basterds is what we get when we let Tarantino loose, and Antichrist is what we get when Trier is free, then i dont really see a problem

What does everyone else think? I know McGuigan posted some very very interesting and valid points about this film in the Reviews section...


P.S. On Antichrist, im still somewhat torn, though i havnt seen the film, its getting very mixed reviews, so i think i'l check it out

P.P.S There's a very interesting article about the idea of Auteur's Vs Studios in this months Sight and Sound film journal, i reccomend anyone interestied in film to give it a try, particularly Cptn Kaviar, and Casey, though i think many people here would get a kick out of it.

P.P.P.S The reviewer at the Guardian is a complete cunt, and idiot. Dont read him, he's a complete snob, about nearly every film he reviews, its incensing me reading him. I might write an e-mail.

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[mcgugan]

A full discussion when I'm not half asleep, but for a good reviewer, read Roger Ebert. Doesn't hate "snobbish" film, but also doesn't look down on blockbuster films.
And on Inglourious Basterds, a very good point someone made to me was that Hitler laughing hysterically at a film that just portrayed a load of deaths seems ridiculous, until you consider that that's basically what you've been doing for the past couple of hours. That's exactly the kind of symmetry Tarantino loves, and I thought it was surprisingly subtle for him. Also, Chapter One. No matter what anyone thinks of what happens afterwards and the difficult morality of it, Chapter One was a fantastic piece of cinema. Bed.

[Seany C]

I'm watching this tonight. Will probably give my thoughts on the subject as soon as I get home.

I think this thread is quite a good idea. I picture this being the thread to discuss film as an artform and the other one being the thread to discuss it as entertainment. I look forwards to posting in both.

[gdf]

SPOILER WARNING ETC.

The first scene was fantastic. He crafted the tension in such a way that you knew something had to give, and as soon as he revealed the family under the floorboards I felt it lurching horribly towards the inevitable. A lot of that has to do with Waltz' performance, he was brilliant throughout and he deftly portrayed the casual malevolence and cruelty of a character who is really a bit of a coward. Not to belittle Tarantino's work with that scene, but tellingly the friend I went with liked it the least because it was "slow and a bit boring" but bummed the rest, called it the "best film I've seen in years" and tried to comment intelligibly ("the way it was split up into chapters was just... it was genius and gave it a nice flow" was the upper limit - really) but failed miserably.

I did, however, feel the later bar scene was unnecessarily protracted. Without that same tension you could cut with a knife existing for most of the scene it fell utterly flat thanks to its length. That it was an incidental and almost peripheral event to the rest of the plot worsened its crimes.

Neither did I feel myself get attached to the characters other than Shosanna, Marcel and to a lesser extent Frederick Zoller. Felt no sympathy for anyone else besides the rest of Shosanna's family at the start. This is contrary to his other work - especially Reservoir Dogs - where I really wanted most of them to survive the mess.

Other than that, the film is a bunch of polished but very dumb action punctuated by genius flashes of humour (the film premier night between the bar and Landa taking von Hammersmark away especially).

[Seany C]

Spoiler warnings fucking hell. Now I know there's people under some floorboards or something.

[gdf]

Oh dear, sorry.

Well to be fair you should probably have watched it before going into this thread :drama:

[mcgugan]

I thought that the film's emotional core was the story of Shosanna, and the Basterds were more a commentary on the film's "popcorn cinema" image. Their abrupt introduction and the lack of interest in any character development (Why did Hugo defect? Where did those extra 3 Basterds go between the trench scene and the bar?) was, to me, symbolic of Tarantino's beloved action films of the 70s and 80s. Shosanna and her plotline were incredibly mature for a Tarantino film, which, while really fucking fun, have always been in my eyes 18-rated films for kids. Despite his always interesting stylistic choices, he's never been a truly great director for me, until I saw that opening scene and the interactions between Frederick and Shosanna.
That's why I think this is a great film. To be able to make something for people seeking mindless violence AND those who view cinema as something more than entertainment is truly gifted filmmaking. I don't believe film should be all action and adventure and romance, but I also wouoldn't want it to be all arthouse or drama. I'd look forward to seeing if Tarantino could take this seemingly newfound maturity and blend it seamlessly with his old style, as this film was slightly disjointed.

On the subject of this thread, what do people think of the idea of having an Interhood Movie Club, where we all watch a film and discuss it on a certain day the next week?

[gdf]

We tried it on X360 and it almost worked for a wee while. Could be good.

[DanglyBrasco]

Yes it could be!

[Seany C]

Do that shit right fucking now

Kpt Kav: He's enthusiastic enough, but not expressing it in a dignified enough manner.

[DanglyBrasco]

LANGUAGE SEANY!

We be in the Teahouse!

[01casey]

Yeah, go for the Film Club. I'd be keen to get involved this time.

[Seany C]

Damn, perhaps I should avoid the teahouse after smoking up

[mcgugan]

seeing as this appears to be going ahead, District 9 discussion September 10th should be a film club appointment. Yay or nay?

[gdf]

Yay.

[Kaptain Kaviar]

Nay, because it is not out until quite a bit later for me

And Sean, if I catch you doing something like that inside the tea house again I'll... I'll... refuse to serve you any more free crumpets for every third you purchase.

[Seany C]

My humblest of apologies.

[Dingo]

I'll try and actually watch ONE film in the club this time. I should get to see District 9 on release so I'm up for that though it's a shame Major won't see it by then. When is it out over there Major?

[gdf]

Damn, we can't do a new release film without Iain, The Interhood's resident buff of buffs.

[Kaptain Kaviar]

Actually, turns out my friend was mistaken. He claimed it had been pushed back until mid-october, but the cinemas still have it set for 11.09. So I'm fine with that after all!

[Dingo]

Bring on District 9 then!

[DanglyBrasco]

Yesyes.. It looks great

[mcgugan]

We'll make it September 12th. That will give Kaviar a little time to go see it and discussion won't be dead by the time he has.

[Kaptain Kaviar]

Good stuff!

[bomby]

argh and the only local cinema i have is closed, great, long bus trip it is for me.